Man-Size ([info]man_size) wrote,
@ 2007-03-09 11:43:00
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300


Thanks to Frank Miller and gang, I was one of the many comix makers who went to the big IMAX screening of 300 in NYC last night. I took SBX who was feeling low because earlier that day she received sad news that her Aunt had passed away in England. What better way to cheer my girl up but to bring her to a movie featuring near naked men with six-pack stomach muscles wearing nothing but sandals, swords, cod pieces, and capes, and watch 300 Spartans slaughter a million hyper-realized adversaries? She was game. We sat with peers Paul Pope, Chip Kidd, and John Cassaday, and when the lights dimmed, we sucked in our breath and crossed our fingers.

When the credits finally rolled, we exhaled and all looked at each other. I asked SBX what she thought? "Awesome." I looked at Paul and asked him what he thought. "Incredible. It's Manga on film." I agreed and suggested he see SHOGUN ASSASSIN, a huge influence on Frank's work. We all looked towards Chip, and before I could ask him what he thought he blurted "All it was missing was cock!" We all laughed and reminded Chip that it was Rated R and I thought to myself, "300, the movie, has more cock in it without ever once having to show it." And, that sums up my feelings for this movie. I caught myself from tearing up during some of the battle scenes when the Spartans showed no retreat, and every time Gerard Butler's King Leonidas grimaced and yelled and stomped and thrusted, I was right there with him, chewing my teeth and sneering at Xerxes and everything he represented. I felt the presence of a sword and shield in my possession for almost the entire movie experience.

See, I read 300, the comic book series, when it came out and dug it for its vistas, battle poses, and insane costume design, but I didn't really grasp the "historical" nature of the story and felt the script wasn't connecting with me like how Frank's super-noir SIN CITY and/or MARTHA WASHINGTON parody had [not to forget his awesome franchise perennials: DAREDEVIL, BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, and BATMAN: YEAR ONE]. Perhaps, 300 took too much artistic liberty and I wasn't prepared for Frank's romanticized version of the legendary tale? That was 1998, and, over 10-years later, I've changed a lot and my needs to enjoy a story has changed with it. Instead of reportage and historical accuracy, I seek emotional truths. This is a credo I've engaged in my personal work the past year-and-a-half as I revisit my avatar, BILLY DOGMA, via web-comix at [info]act_i_vate with stories like "Immortal," and now, "Fear, my dear." I need to re-read 300 the comic book to see if the emotional truths film maker Zack Snyder captured in green screen technology was ever evident but the movie itself sent my emotions soaring as the basic ideas of freedom and what men will do for it and at what cost was operatic, epic, and profound.

"Remember us." Indeed.

Afterwards, SBX and I walked across the street to OLLIE'S for some Chinese food with [info]4_eyez, [info]leborcham, [info]purvision, [info]ebess, and [info]jahfurry, and we talked about 300 and what was next for Frank Miller.

RONIN - THE MOVIE.


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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 04:45 pm UTC (link)
it's a good thing we didn't end up sitting next to each other this time, because i was so bored that i actually took out my tax forms and started divvying up my receipts.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Pants on fire!

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 07:58 pm UTC (link)
NO, definitely not joking. The movie was so tiresome I almost went into a coma for six years.

Here are some choice snippets from A.O. Scott's NY Times review, which just about covers every angle:
  • "300 is about as violent as Apocalypto and twice as stupid. . . . It offers up a bombastic spectacle of honor and betrayal, rendered in images that might have been airbrushed onto a customized van sometime in the late 1970s."
  • "The Persians, pioneers in the art of facial piercing, have vastly greater numbers — including ninjas, dervishes, elephants, a charging rhino and an angry bald giant — but the Spartans clearly have superior health clubs and electrolysis facilities. They also hew to a warrior ethic of valor and freedom that makes them, despite their gleeful appetite for killing, the good guys in this tale. (It may be worth pointing out that unlike their mostly black and brown foes, the Spartans and their fellow Greeks are white.)"
  • "A gaggle of sickly, corrupt priests, bought off by the Persians, consult an oracular exotic dancer whose topless gyrations lead to a warning against going to war."
  • "Gorgo understands her husband’s noble purpose, the higher cause for which he is willing to sacrifice his life. 'Come home with your shield or on it,' she tells him as he heads off into battle after a night of somber marital whoopee. Later she observes that 'freedom is not free.'"
  • "Another movie — Matt Stone and Trey Parker’s Team America, whose wooden puppets were more compelling actors than most of the cast of 300 — calculated the cost at $1.05. I would happily pay a nickel less, in quarters or arcade tokens, for a vigorous 10-minute session with the video game that 300 aspires to become. Its digitally tricked-up color scheme, while impressive at times, is hard to tolerate for nearly two hours (true masochists can seek out the Imax version), and the hectic battle scenes would be much more exciting in the first person. I want to chop up some Persians too!"
  • "Zack Snyder’s first film, a remake of George Romero’s Dawn of the Dead, showed wit as well as technical dexterity. While some of that filmmaking acumen is evident here, the script for 300, . . . is weighed down by the lumbering portentousness of the original book, whose arresting images are themselves undermined by the kind of pomposity that frequently mistakes itself for genius."
  • "In time, 300 may find its cultural niche as an object of camp derision. . . . At present, though, its muscle-bound, grunting self-seriousness is more tiresome than entertaining. Go tell the Spartans, whoever they are, to stay home and watch wrestling."


and finally this bon mot:

"300 is rated R (Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian). Much butchery, some lechery."

HAW!!!

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 08:08 pm UTC (link)
The experience may have tired you out and the plot holes may have been cumbersome and the logic a bit skewed but I wouldn't compare this version of the legend to anything accurate or historical. It was, as Leland pointed out, "An opera." Weird that A.O. Scott would compare Miller/Snyder's expressionism to reality. Wow, he hated the movie big time. And, so did you.

300 - THE MOVIE [and comic book] was an epic temper tantrum with one monofixated thought vs an equally opposing monofixated thought. If nobody gets that they won't enjoy the entertainment value.

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Oh, I got it! When one idea is thumped into your skull for two hours, it's hard to miss. But I didn't hate 300 — I just wasn't interested. Big difference.

Also, nowhere does AO nitpick 300's historical "accuracy" — he just roasts the flick for its campiness, inadevertant homoeroticism, dim-wittedness, brutality, xenophobia, and delusions of grandeur. That's all.

But I did enoy the free IMAX experience, and of course din-din with you and the gang.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 08:38 pm UTC (link)
And, don't forget, the "gratuitous violence."

AO nitpicks the campiness [which I love] but they wouldn't be as nitpicky if he wasn't making a bigger point about its overt irreality [which, again, I love].

Expression is my bag.

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 09:26 pm UTC (link)
no offense, but i have no idea what you mean. seems like you insist on claiming that the reviewer is hung up on realism, but nowhere in the review snippets i quoted does he take issue with that.

i quoted his review 'cause i found it such a hilarious point-by-point send-up of the movie.

i like expressionism too. but i need my head engaged as well as my heart.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 09:37 pm UTC (link)
I guess we're reading the review differently as we did the movie.

No sweat. I'm not surprised that you would do your taxes [I know you're joking -- I think?] in the middle of the movie instead of just leaving the theatre since you weren't engaged.

There's "free" and then there's wasting your time.

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 09:51 pm UTC (link)
i don't know how you can read the review the way you did. you're searching for criticism which isn't there.

and now you're accusing me of being cheap. wow. i guess you're taking it personally, as if you had something to do with the making of 300, or i'm insulting you for liking it

people have different reactions to stuff. that's what makes society diverse and interesting. and i enjoy thinking about art (yes, movies are art) on a level more than "hate it" or "love it." the world is composed of infinite shades of grey, not just black & while.

i stayed because i was enjoying the overall experience enough to stay. plus, i wanted to have dinner with my friends.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 10:03 pm UTC (link)
I'm not taking your feelings about 300 personally. You may be a killjoy on this thread but I think I know, after knowing you 25+ years, what you like and don't like and you not picking up what Miller & Snyder were laying down ain't no epiphany.

Thx for the lesson about art and society and diversity. It was this thread that I finally came to understand "difference."

[sheesh]

Why insult me? I wasn't insulting you.

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 10:36 pm UTC (link)
who's insulting who here?

anyway, you're right, i WAS a killjoy on your post. what i should have done is just posted my response to the movie on my blog. that way our two opinions could have existed pristine in their isolation.

my sincere apologies.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 10:41 pm UTC (link)
I was/am interested in your 300 review. No more piggy-backing on the NYT. I want NEUFELD's pure thoughts.

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[info]lilrivkah
2007-03-10 02:03 am UTC (link)
300 - THE MOVIE [and comic book] was an epic temper tantrum with one monofixated thought vs an equally opposing monofixated thought. If nobody gets that they won't enjoy the entertainment value.

I don't quite agree with that. I can appreciate that 300 is supposed to be pure entertainment (I didn't even know it was based off a real historical battle and thought it was pure fiction from the beginning), but pure entertainment doesn't mean it'll entertain everybody. I can see why a lot of men will dig it (the beau is going out with all his buds tonight to see it and he's pretty psyched) and why straight women will dig it, but for this bi chick who only loves men for their brains (mmmm) and would rather stare at a screen with 300 naked chicks for two hours, 300 completely misses the mark. That and the lack of a plot; this gal can't be sustained on two hours of eye candy alone.

What truly amazes me, though, is how polar this movie has been in dividing people into love/hate groups, each going after the other's throat. I was reading the responses to the negative reviews today and . . . ouch! It's okay to dislike a movie just as it's okay to love it. But it seems the returns for this one have been particularly violent on BOTH sides.

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[info]lilrivkah
2007-03-10 02:08 am UTC (link)
Wait. There IS a plot in 300, however minimal, so I should say, "The lack of an engaging plot."

Of all people, I am amazed by how bored this movie leaves me when it comes from the same brilliant creator of one of my favorite movies and graphic novels of all time. I've watched Sin City many, many times over and find both the graphic and story elements incredibly engaging. It's frustrating! I want to like everything Frank Miller does, but really . . . it seems I can only get into his pulp noir fiction where the cheese factor is expected and adored to the point of nastalgia and the women are oh so, so, so hot.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-10 02:59 am UTC (link)
Did you see 300? If not, don't weigh in on it until you see it.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-10 02:58 am UTC (link)
I never once claimed pure entertainment would entertain everybody. That's bananas. However, if anybody walks into 300 looking for something even-handed and intellectual, they got another think coming. It's all aggro-moxie, babycakes.

300 is a niche subject/effort with a Hollywood-sized budget and marketing campaign. I hope it does well because I dig it and I want Miller and Snyder to make more stuff like it but I will be surprised if this movie takes America by storm. Curiously, I see 300 doing better in Europe and Asia where more expressive art is embraced.

If anything, 300 has some folks talking and that's always good.

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[info]iconotrast
2007-03-09 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Frank will never invite you to a movie again, josh.

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[info]xoshua
2007-03-09 04:58 pm UTC (link)
i almost didn't read this until i had my thoughts down for the world to read... and then i decided "hell, maybe dino can say what i'm not sure my brain can grasp."

no worries there, as i was more along josh's line of thinking. maybe it's because i read 300 in one sitting so recently, but i wasn't feeling much of the movie, except (as you mention) the spartans in battle.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 05:06 pm UTC (link)
Josh was joking [I think]. When we saw SIN CITY together, Josh started rifling through his wallet looking for a receipt or something benign. He did not like the movie and decided it was time to distract himself in other ways. It annoyed me so I bumped him in the shoulder.

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[info]xoshua
2007-03-09 05:18 pm UTC (link)
so i might be alone in my apathy for the movie? oh well. though i may like it more when my memory of the book is nowhere near as fresh

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 05:20 pm UTC (link)
You haven't seen 300? Oh -- it's great!

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[info]xoshua
2007-03-09 05:28 pm UTC (link)
no, i have seen it, and will be seeing it again in IMAX tonight.

http://xoshua.livejournal.com/84460.html

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[info]4_eyez
2007-03-09 07:59 pm UTC (link)
no, xosh — not alone.

see my response to Dino, above

- josh

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[info]xoshua
2007-03-09 08:30 pm UTC (link)
interesting reviewer bits; thanks!

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[info]gdwessel
2007-03-09 04:58 pm UTC (link)
HUmmmmmmm 300 was 1999, surely?

Whatever the case, YES, Ronin needs to be next, although 2 issues:

1) DC owns it, not Miller
2) It'll have to have some sort of renaming as there was a movie of the same name with Robert DeNiro a few years back.

Can't wait to see 300 tho.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 05:03 pm UTC (link)
'98. Fixed.

I think RONIN was announced recently...

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[info]lunchbreak_pat
2007-03-09 05:09 pm UTC (link)
Isn't THE SPIRIT his next film project?

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 05:15 pm UTC (link)
That and SIN CITY 2.

But, I think RONIN will kill!

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[info]rantcomics
2007-03-09 05:48 pm UTC (link)
Comic Book Rockstars!

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[info]jcrichards
2007-03-09 06:50 pm UTC (link)
Wait...not only did you get to see a kickass movie, but you did it in the company of Paul Pope AND Chip Kidd?!?!?

Me = JEALOUS!

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[info]man_size
2007-03-09 08:38 pm UTC (link)
NYC is where it's at!

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[info]davesbu
2007-03-09 10:39 pm UTC (link)
yeah, THE SPIRIT is next. SIN CITY 2 is waiting for Jolie, despite rumors to the contrary. I dug the movie. Definitely a must for the big screen. Beautifully graphic.

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[info]lilrivkah
2007-03-10 01:52 am UTC (link)
SIN CITY 2 is waiting for Jolie, despite rumors to the contrary.

*cough* You didn't hear this from me, but apparently, a big part of the tie-up is the director's divorce with his wife. NOoooooot very pretty, or so I've heard from my film peeps here in Austin where Sin City was shot (in his home studio, nonetheless).

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[info]man_size
2007-03-10 02:51 am UTC (link)
Yeah -- I, too, heard wind of divorce stuff clogging schedules.

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[info]radiumhead
2007-03-10 08:10 am UTC (link)
1.Holy shit!!! I was thinking about Ronin before I even got to the end of your post.If there's a Ronin movie I'll be a happy man.The only other projects I'd rather see more are Dreadstar (never happen), Sandman (never happen), and a real Teen Titans movie.(which isnt being planned, but COULD happen.And...
2.The same guy is doing Watchmen!! It might have a decent chance of being good!

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[info]man_size
2007-03-10 05:15 pm UTC (link)
I was a big fan of DREADSTAR when I was younger. Jim Starlin is currently writing a revamp of Kirby's NEW GODS, soon.

I'm a fan of Zack Snyder, too. His DAWN OF THE DEAD remake hit it outta the ballpark. They've already leaked a test still of RORSCHACH from the impending WATCHMEN movie: http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/09/hurm/

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[info]jahfurry
2007-03-12 02:27 am UTC (link)
Starlin's New Gods, now that could be a doozie.
My response to the above debate is that AO Scott would give prime 70s kirby a bad review. Its telling that he didn't like Sin City either : "Sin City offers sensation without feeling, death without grief, sin without guilt and, ultimately, novelty without surprise."" Which I disagree with as well.
However I do think this is a matter of taste and not of objective merit. Instead of watering down the vision to something that most people would like, or find palatble or decently amusing they made a movie that some would LOVE and that those who aren't into would HATE. I saw Cecil Taylor at Lincoln Center this weekend, and so did Josh.i LOVED him. His performance was a horizontal line, and if you got on board, you flew, if you didn't probably was like going to the dentist. Its the same thing, you ever like his kind of playing or you don't but both are right. B/c if you only like linear playing with distinguishable melodies, you'll hate it...
this was broad passionate strokes, which is brave bc there is no defense against who hate it. but also no way to dissuade those that love it.

Same with a movie like this...

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[info]man_size
2007-03-12 07:10 pm UTC (link)
As always, you make sound observations and connections, Jah.

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[info]radiumhead
2007-03-12 02:22 am UTC (link)
Dude, I just saw 300 tonight...your review is TOTALLY on the mark.I dont understand how anyone could possibly be bored with it.Maybe part of their soul is dead.I dont know.
As far as other people's complaints about the lack of "historical realism" ...there were friggin MONSTERS AND ORCS IN IT.And Xerxes is TEN FEET TALL.It's a fantastic STORY.It's not a History Channel production.It's BASED on a real story, but to me, complaining that 300 isnt "historically accurate" is like complaining Spider-Man is realistic.That isnt the point.
This totally makes me want to go out and get the GN now.(I'd heard of it,of course, but I'm not ( or wasn't) a big Frank Miller fan.

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[info]man_size
2007-03-12 07:07 pm UTC (link)
I've seen many action-oriented films that I fell asleep at. If you don't emotionally connect with the protagonist/s and/or story, an action film can over stimulate the senses and shut you down. Luckily, I emotionally connected with 300.

WAITASECOND! There weren't monsters and orcs back in the day!?!

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[info]radiumhead
2007-03-13 03:25 am UTC (link)
I know what you mean about the emotional connection- I LOVED these characters-the queen, the king, the guy with the one eye,the guy whose son died...which makes it even more impressive to me was that I'd never even READ 300-I've seen a ton of comic movies, there were only a few I loved on BOTH levels,how it looked, and the heart of it-those movies, for me, were-1.The Spider Man movies-2.Xmen 2 (and the end of X men 3)-3.the last Batman movie-4.The original Superman (1 & 2)-and pasts of Superman Returns.
Seriously, there were parts of 300 (and the other movies I mentioned)-where I almost teared up.But with those movies, part of it was that I'd known those characters my whole life-300 was brand new to me, and I was still thinking, "holy fuck."
Of course, if I was a spartan, i couldnt admit that, cause they'd just stab me to death.

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300
[info]jenn_xx
2007-03-12 07:41 pm UTC (link)
We saw it yesterday afternoon. It was so inspiring. I was shrinking in my seat at the big oaf creature who broke out of his chains. And of course, my favorite moment was when the Queen chopped that dude's head off! Great flick!

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Re: 300
[info]jenn_xx
2007-03-12 07:52 pm UTC (link)
I hadn't read the other comments yet before my last comment, but I really can't believe that people wouldn't like this movie. I guess you do have to be in the right frame of mind and take it for what it is: entertainment. My pal Xenia was a bit put off by the gore factor. Her husband Pat liked it but had some issues with some of the costumes but Me, Tom and Charlie were all thumbs up and totally pumped by 300. The men were soo hot and not in a Troy way either.

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Re: 300
[info]man_size
2007-03-12 07:54 pm UTC (link)
As Sly Stone once coined and put into song, "Different strokes for different folks."

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