Man-Size ([info]man_size) wrote,
@ 2005-04-30 17:14:00
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Future Comix

[Jessica Abel, Paul Pope, Dean Haspiel, and Nick Bertozzi, on the road from M.I.T.]



Jessica Abel, Paul Pope, Nick Bertozzi, and I, rendezvoused early at Cafe Reggio on MacDougal Street in the west village of Manhattan Thursday morning. The road trip to Cambridge, MA, gave us a good 5-hours to catch up with each other. Nick played a round of mash-ups as DESTINY'S CHILD sang over NIRVANA riffs. I brought KRAFTWERK [my latest return to analog robot sounds], and FELIX DA HOUSECAT'S "Watching cars goes by" became our roaring posse tune. Nick and I discussed the next issue of RUBBERNECKER and the status of his graphic novel THE SALON, while Paul and Jessica discussed the formal qualities of the comix page. We all came to the conclusion that Fumetti's [photo comix], made for bad sequential narratives and didn't allow the reader to naturally marry text with images. A photograph steals a single second of time whereas the innate inaccuracies of a drawn image psychologically allows for considered time to pass alongside words. Photos are being used more in mainstream comics, often manipulated to look like illustration, and the effect largely fails the esthetic experience I desire in a comic book.

We grabbed a quick bite of Mediterranean food before hoofing it through M.I.T.'s Hall of Infinity, towards the room we would speak in. We gave Vanessa Bertozzi [Nick's sister and organizer of this little event] a hug and met the charming Professor Henry Jenkins, comix academic and champion of the form. After brief introductions and the lights dimmed, Jessica spoke first and showed an overview of her career from its origins to date. Seeing her "Jack London" pages projected wide across the wall was amazing to study. It's rare that one holds a magnifying glass up to their work. I was reminded how beautiful and lush Jessica's drawings can sometimes be. Her painted covers were majestic and I think she plans to create and sell prints of them. Paul spoke second as he discussed his origins as a frustrated painter cum cartoonist who has come to solely create in terms of comix. For someone who originally needed to "destroy comics" in order to learn them, Paul embraced his heroes. NEW GODS meets CORTO MALTESE by way of Philip K. Dick; Paul Pope is an innovative visionary whose influences have gelled into an original sensibility that I admire and always learn from. Paul ended his overview with a promotional page from his upcoming kids project, BATTLING BOY. The art he projected humbled me. Nick was third as he gave the colloquium a much needed injection of humor. Nick grew up on the polar opposite sensibilities of CLASSICS ILLUSTRATED and R. CRUMB comix [sans the naughty bits as per his cautionary father] and tried to make an early comix impact with marketing tactics. Discovering the popularity of Shannon Wheeler's TOO MUCH COFFEE MAN comix, Nick decided he'd corner the alcohol market with the short lived THE INCREDIBLE DRINKIN' BUDDIES and TRANQUILIZER, which cost him a good $16,000 of solid debt. It wasn't until after his failed attempt to sell and publish FILTHY BABY [my favorite Bertozzi comic to date, bar none], that he took some much needed advice from me [when we lived together] to take personal risks, tell the stories he wanted to tell, and quit trying to fill industry holes [maybe certain ideas will never sell and that's why they don't exist in the market?]. Heeding my advice, Nick went on to win a Xeric Grant for his innovative map-comic BOSWASH, got published in L'Association's COMIX 2000, and scored Alternative Comics as a publisher for THE MASOCHIST'S, and his award winning RUBBERNECKER series.

Not having prepared any cohesive thoughts for the brief discussion of my career overview, I wanted to let my images prompt knee-jerk reactions and jog memories. I was pleasantly jolted by my schizophrenic career. Having dreamt of becoming a penciller for Marvel Comics' THE FANTASTIC FOUR, only to discover the underground comix of Chester Brown and Harvey Pekar at an impressionable age, I was curious to learn my hyper ability to hopscotch between genre and semi-auto-bio over the past many years. Having had semi-success with my first co-creation in 1987 with THE VERDICT, I've never apologized for my desire to draw genre oriented comix. Having failed two early attempts to draw for DC Comics [the second attempt occurred when I fell off a 3-story building shattering my legs and compromising my drawing hand], I studied and made films only to return to the comix industry via KEYHOLE mini-comix with Josh Neufeld [aka [info]4_eyez]. Learning to write for myself, taking chances to create original characters, and exploring semi-autobio while collaborating with established writers, snowballed into a career that is inconsistent yet littered with obscure highlights. I've worked with masters and peers and made a small dent with my solo offerings, keeping one foot firmly planted in the independent pond while mangling franchise characters in the mainstream. I showed art from OPPOSABLE THUMBS to BILLY DOGMA, THE THING to CAPTAIN AMERICA to X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN, from BATMAN to JUSTICE LEAGUE, THE AMAZING ADVENTURES OF THE ESCAPIST to VAMPIRELLA. Ending off on my current projects, Harvey Pekar's THE QUITTER, and my upcoming 2-man superhero anthology with Scott Morse, AS BIG AS EARTH.

After the digital slide show, there was a Q&A. One woman asked us about the future of comix. Paul weighed in about city building and how gadgets and environmental innovation will always be something he explores in his world view. I expressed my mission to perpetuate the dying art of romance and honor and the poetic struggle that lies within. Something I struggle with in my own life. Another woman asked us what we do to make our books stand out from the rest. I told her I strip my clothes off at conventions and everyone laughed. Overall, I would hazard to guess that 35 people, including cartoonist Greg Cook, showed up for the event.

The after party furnished pizza and soda in Professor Jenkin's abode where his living room was a virtual comix lounge. I met and talked with Meg Lemke, an editor from HOUGHTON MIFFLIN, who was very interested in developing original graphic novels. She was a huge fan of Craig Thompson's BLANKETS and we discussed the pros and cons of micro-managing creativity. At one point, the group discussed SIN CITY. Some folks were disappointed in its cinematic structure. I declared it a unique spectacle that had you recovering from the first third of the repeated themes in the movie until it finally stopped. I suggested that fans of Frank Miller abandon the notion of cinema when watching SIN CITY and to bring a seat belt. I met LJer [info]rojagato who was awfully kind and quite gracious.

A student named Tracy, invited us to take a private tour through the infamous M.I.T. Media Lab. Bug-eyed we jumped at the chance. Tracy took us through a few floors of sheer innovation. It was hard to grasp the amount of ideas and information that was being experimented on. Young geniuses were staying late because this is where their brain belonged. A place where time had no place because most of their ideas probably wouldn't make practical sense into today's culture and economy. I saw things that sobered and frightened me. Things that I would never have considered. From far flung domestic fantasy's to sentimental solutions [like a picture frame laced with buttons you press to send lit hugs & kisses to your loved ones far away], to the advancement of communication, the internet, cars, to visualizing people and environments with only the use of sound manifesting image, to romper rooms staged with playful musical toy sponges and monkey robots made from Legos. There were rooms sealed from public view but the hint of weapon technology was ever present as computer lined cloth and combative skin haunted the halls in glass cases. We saw the future and it was Jack Kirby's OMAC.

So, we all went back to the Mediterranean place which was also a bar. Tracy, who is half black/half Spanish, had recently written an essay about the representation of the African-American image in comix and was curious about my intentions for THE YELLOW KITE in my A-OKAY COOL comix. We wound have having a semi-heated debate about art and how it provokes reaction and what is the responsibility of the artist. I argued that my creation was an absurd parody of the superhero team yet clearly a love letter to the Silver Age of comics, and that THE YELLOW KITE was one reaction to a version of the black culture I grew up on and admired. Having dug Blaxploitation and dub reggae, THE YELLOW KITE was a fond celebration of Rudy Ray Moore's DOLEMITE and Lee "Scratch" Perry's THE UPSETTERS. Growing up to witness the invention of rap with Afrika Bambaataa and The Soul Sonic Force's PLANET ROCK, and Run-DMC's ground-breaking IT'S LIKE THAT, and taking part in the culture thereof I didn't feel it blasphemous, as a white man, to brandish black superheroes in my comix. Tracy had a hard time getting past the depiction of THE YELLOW KITE'S wide nose, big lips, afro, and pot belly, which confounded me. What? Some black people don't look like that? She thought the wooden scepter referenced the jungle spear and wondered why his cape was a kite? I suggested that she may be over-thinking my supposed "racist art" and that maybe she should learn to embrace some of the qualities of her own character. She admitted to having identity issues. Despite creed and gender, it's how my characters act and what they do that should concern her. In "The Flight of the Yellow Kite," Nushaun Kevorka is inadvertently transformed into a superhero and saves the day from evil. One could claim THE YELLOW KITE absurd, but the intent of his character is a force for good. Tracy thought future stories involving THE YELLOW KITE could have him fight for black rights. I told her that would be trite and not what I was trying to say with that character [although, oddly enough, I've plotted a future story where THE YELLOW KITE battles a Nazi Terrorist]. She agreed it could be trite. We were in a Mexican stand-off as we knocked back another round of whiskey. Finally, she asked if she could write about THE YELLOW KITE in a follow up to her recent essay. I gave her my blessing.

We spent the rest of the night knocking back more whiskey and taking cheesecake pictures. Nick drove Vanessa and Tracy back to their respective homes while we blasted our posse tune "Watching cars goes by" before calling it a night and hitting hay.

On the car ride back to NYC, Paul showed us original art from SOLO and his upcoming THB and BATMAN YEAR 100. Studying Pope's work up close, I came to realize that I'm just another rinky-dink ink-slinger and that, until my work manifests a sole sensibility, my name will never justify sitting above a franchise title. Face it, you're not reading just another issue in a long history of BATMAN comix when reading Frank Miller or Paul Pope. Conversing about that kind of creative carte blanche with Pope, who is incredibly humble yet focused, it caused me to think more about my station in the comix industry and the work I have to do of I want a shot at telling and selling the tales I wish to draw. I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to draw Pekar's THE QUITTER, make creator-owned comix like BILLY DOGMA, while developing new collaborations with writers I admire but I need something more. If there's one thing I walked away from my experience to and from M.I.T., is that tomorrow will soon become yesterday and I better get what I want today.



Inside M.I.T.'s sanctum sanatorium, The Media Lab:

[L to R: Jessica, Nick, Dean, Vanessa, & Paul]

Bar banter and cheesecake:





On the road back to NYC:


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[info]bobo_dreams
2005-04-30 11:28 pm UTC (link)
you look like your art styles..

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 08:38 pm UTC (link)
Word? Cool.

WAIT! What do our art styles look like?

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Weird
[info]mpschuster
2005-05-02 07:31 pm UTC (link)
Man, they really do. (Although I'm not familiar with Mr. Bertozzi, I'll have to read up on his work.) Paul is just loose and scribbly, he looks like his shadows would be pools of ink.

Very cool essay about the event. Bring a tape recorder next time, I'm sure lots of people would dig hearing your opinions and ideas about the medium. When groups like this get together ideas can get mashed up next to eachother in different and exciting ways. (Do you have any group sketches?)

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Re: Weird
[info]man_size
2005-05-02 08:01 pm UTC (link)
A recording device would've been key. Next time?

Alas, no group sketches [except for the quick 'thank you' note we left our house hosts].

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[info]leborcham
2005-04-30 11:42 pm UTC (link)
DEAN! When are you going to wear your NEW shirt?

Seriously, a great great write up.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 08:39 pm UTC (link)
Thanks.

I plan to unfurl my NEW shirt before Ragnorak.

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[info]brianwood
2005-05-01 12:15 am UTC (link)
man, that looks like fun. wish I could have gone. :)

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 08:41 pm UTC (link)
Be nice if somebody organized stuff like this on a regular basis. The week before that had director Michel Gondry.

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[info]ianbrill
2005-05-01 02:09 am UTC (link)
You've got a great mind for explaining what does and doesn't work in comics (way better than me nad I try to do it everyday). The fummetti talk and the talk of race in comics prove that you know what you're talking about and have thought long and hard about it.

You defintley have your own style like Pope has his own style. Your characters look like they have immense beauty glowing under years of taking hard beatings, both mentally and physically. It's why you drew the Thing so well and why Billy Dogma is such a great character.

Dan Slott is writing the Thing book coming out. He's the only guy working now that captures that old-school Marvel feel. I think it would be cool if you worked with him on Thing stories.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 08:49 pm UTC (link)
Thanks, Ian. I'm a huge fan of the aged and tortured soul. I mine for beauty in the ugliness of men, women, and the world. Probably why I suck at kids comix.

I appreciate what you write because you cover a wide range of comix topics I hardly ever consider, much less, have sound opinions for. For a young whippersnapper you've got a keen head.

I'd give my 5-O'clock Shadow to work with Dan Slott.

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[info]ianbrill
2005-05-01 09:29 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for the kind words.

I'd love to see a Slott/Haspiel production. You guys are some of the last to do superheroes right.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:34 pm UTC (link)
I wrote Slott and he's game. Problem with that is: a lot of writers want to work with a lot of artists [and vice-versa] and it's usually up to editors to make it happen. Still, it's nice to know Dan is down.

Start a letter campaign!

{{{kidding}}}

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[info]ianbrill
2005-05-01 10:06 pm UTC (link)
If I started a letter campaign for everything I want the comics industry to do my hands would be dust by now.

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[info]franceskiely
2008-08-11 04:43 pm UTC (link)
Haute tension comment | cinéma | august 2,   Don't rush me   Even though I'm not a huge fan of horror films, I'm curious about "Haute tension".

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[info]rojagato
2005-05-01 04:58 am UTC (link)
I met LJer rojagato who was awfully kind and quite gracious

*Blush* (But hah! My Arkansan accent snares yet another Yankee.)

Thanks for the encyclopedic wrap-up of the colloquium (which saves me much typing, so now I can just href that and concentrate on my own navel-gazing), and for the happy pics. I wish I were there for the exchange with Tracy, and for the beerage at the "Mediterranean place", 'cause if that was the Middle East, that's my second home. I'd say that I wish I was there to introduce you to the Sater brothers, but it seems you were in good hands, salaam-shalom, regardless.

Awesomely great write-up. Gosh.

I'm really glad that you enjoyed your time here, and I hope that Jessica, Paul, and Nick feel the same. Certainly, from this side of the Charles, it was time well spent. Thank you all, so much.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:02 pm UTC (link)
Tracy was sweating me when I realized, loud and clear, I hadn't done anything purposely wrong. I learned years ago that most people are only ever really talking about themselves. Class issues was obviously a major hot topic for her and I steered the convo away from my work and towards her personal feelings about it and that seemed to ease us into a less bumpy road. It was an eye-opening debate that made me consider, evermore, the power of words & pictures.

Thanks for making it out to the colloquium and hanging out. We all had a fantastic experience.

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[info]bardot
2005-05-01 05:21 am UTC (link)
in the interest of not robbing you of any brain cells, i'll keep any comics opinions to myself.

but oh that paul pope. how come he never looks BAD in a photo?

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[info]brettday
2005-05-01 09:27 am UTC (link)
Because Paul Pope is a rockstar. Doesn't he look like he just put down his guitar in every photo?

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:03 pm UTC (link)
I'm curious about your ideas of comix.

Pope has all the angles covered. Plus, he looks like CORTO MALTESE.

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[info]steveandabigail
2005-05-02 08:41 pm UTC (link)
The worrying thing is that CM T's etc seem to be trying to be "in" in London atm... dunno if anyone has any idea as to the source of the imagery though...

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[info]tuckermike
2005-05-01 10:09 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the great little 4a.m. read. It is also nice to get to see some up close snaps of some comics creators that I actualy admire.
I've been thinking of my own direction, in a carrer in storytelling. I'm also making some hard changes, personaly more then artistic.
As far as my own innovations check some of it out here. I'd love to get a cent or two out of you before I finish it up.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/tuckermike/10259.html

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:18 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I weighed in over at your LJ.

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[info]tuckermike
2005-05-01 10:34 pm UTC (link)
You were more helpful then you realize.
Thank you Mr. Size, don't sell yourself short.

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[info]sekretboi
2005-05-01 01:10 pm UTC (link)
Wow that sounded great. Wish someone could've recorded it for the internet, even if it was just audio.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:03 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. I wish the same.

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[info]charleshwhitman
2005-05-01 04:17 pm UTC (link)
Henry Jenkins... hmmm. He's another noted film scholar. I read his book about Hollywood comedies of the 1930s and used him a lot when I lectured on comedy. He introduced me to Wheeler & Woolsey.

Oh -- and I love your black superhero with the cain who grunts. He rules!

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 09:06 pm UTC (link)
I didn't know that. Jenkins told me he was using some of my comix work in an essay he wrote that's getting published soon.

THE YELLOW KITE doesn't "grunt," he "klucks." And that's not a cane. It's a wooden scepter!

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Damn, but Nick Bertozzi can glare...
[info]skeleteen
2005-05-01 10:08 pm UTC (link)
I'm not gay but I'd let Paul Pope lick my balls.

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[info]skeleteen
2005-05-01 10:17 pm UTC (link)
Also: I think what you mentioned about why fumetti's fail as comics is the same reason Sin City fails. The movie's interesting as an experiment but it's hard for me to say anything else that's complimentary. Frank Miller's drawings are full of more personality and movement than the actors in this movie had. The drawings were like abbreviated moments in time and there's no need to do something similar in a medium where time is passing as the story moves along.

Tell me more about the repeated themes. I thought the fact that Hartigan and Marv were essentially the same character showed a lack of creativity on Frank Miller's part, How did you read that?

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[info]man_size
2005-05-01 11:03 pm UTC (link)
I would've answered your query seriously if I didn't think the way you often respond to my LJ was caustic and foolish [see above and most of your posts to my threads]. Do you respond to most folks like they're assholes? Honestly, check yourself before you wreck yourself.

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[info]purvision
2005-05-02 12:28 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the exhaustive recap. I'm not sure I'd have been able to remember all that if it had been me.

Party with all of them again and invite me. I promise not to make any messes you'd mind cleaning up.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-02 12:55 am UTC (link)
Took me the better half of a day to recap. Thankfully, it was raining out and I was suffering artist's block.

You would've been perfect at M.I.T. with all that purple art jargon and snobbish academia flowing through your brush and veins. I think I may have grunted a few times.

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[info]purvision
2005-05-02 02:05 am UTC (link)
'Grunts.' Yeah, yer knuckles are draggin. And you make like you can only grunt so you wont have to explain the one missing ear.

'Purple', my ass. I dont know from art-jargon. Been faking it since I was fifteen.

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[info]sesquipedeviant
2007-01-05 02:03 pm UTC (link)
Phwooooar. MIT MEDIA LAB?! I'm sure you were phenomenal (and even if you were grunting, your drawings could have spoken by themselves!). They were privileged to have you. I find your comix entrancing, and have always felt that they had a strong sense of self. I'm sure that those who picked presenters were looking for people whose work displayed that.

Back to the comment above. "purple art jargon and snobbish academia flowing through your veins" - gorgeous :} it just set a tiny movie going inside my mind: the snobbish academia is like the oxygen: it is cycled by the heart around the body, attached to the red blood cells... purple art jargon is then excreted, via the veins, into the lungs, and breathed out in entire lectures...

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[info]man_size
2007-01-05 04:19 pm UTC (link)
Thx for your encouraging thoughts. It was an energizing and eye-opening experience. Our mission was to deliver a brief overview of our growth and dedication as cartoonists and it was enlightening to discuss our process. All four of us have such different sensibilities yet, together, present a powerful slice of the American comix making pie.

I dig the creative imagry you lanced from this post.

"Fly Robin, fly..."



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SF
[info]vanbertozzi
2005-05-02 02:39 am UTC (link)
Hiya Dean,

I'm so glad you guys could come up to my nurd kingdom. Everyone really enjoyed seeing you four together, each one of you with your unique stories and styles...but a super team at the same time. Projecting the images 6ft tall was interesting too. The thing that struck me the most about the visit to the Media Lab was the convergence of ideas——Paul's science-fiction and maybe even Nick's Carmopolis——with what they're developing over there. It was like seeing the future through a stereoscopic image: one eye was seeing the future through comix and the other eye was seeing it through MIT robots. Yay!

Here's da link to the photos I took:
http://vanessabertozzi.com/comix/

For more info on Henry's writing see: http://web.mit.edu/21fms/www/faculty/henry3/

And here's an attendee's blow by blow:
http://www.maclainesound.com/blog/2005/04/comic-book-colloquium.html

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Re: SF
[info]man_size
2005-05-02 05:30 am UTC (link)
Thanks for organizing and inviting us. Seriously. I felt kinda special. And, even though comix should be experienced on pulp paper under your blanket with a flashlight after your parents told you to go to sleep three times already, there was something mesmerizing seeing the art projected so tall and so wide.

Eagle eye on the Media Lab similarities 'tween science geeks and comix geeks. Sci-fi plays a huge part in most comix genres. Media Lab is the place where Tony Stark makes his IRON MAN suit, right? I must buy you a set of Kirby's OMAC.

Great Media Lab pix. I'll scope out Jenkins' scribes.

LOVE your LJ icon!

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Re: SF
[info]vanbertozzi
2005-05-02 06:10 am UTC (link)
I think Nick and I realized (over whiskies) that the Media Lab is like the Bat cave.

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[info]lordrexfear
2005-05-02 03:33 pm UTC (link)
Man, you get humbled so easily. ;) MORE CONFIDENCE DEAN-O!

Paul and Jessica and and Nick all may be fantastic, brilliant artists and writers, but you squarely amongst them, not the tag-along (It almost sounds like you sense this inbetween state on them, as if you know you're as good, but don't WANT to accept it... ignore my psychobabble).

If you guys weren't a bunch of comix people, the thing at M.I.T. would've been a rock concert and probably the best indy rock concert EVAR! Also it probably would've been in a club instead of a school.

I still think it's weird that I've followed both you and Nick's comix careers since practically their begininngs. Yes it's trure, I own Incredible Drinkin' Buddies... THE MINI COMIC.

I'd love to actually see Incredible Drinkin' Buddies meet A-OKAY COOL! Especially because the mixture of you and Nick's pencil style on a page would be the greatest AND coolest contrast ever.

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[info]man_size
2005-05-02 03:49 pm UTC (link)
I'm a humble, shy guy.

I don't feel any competition with my peers. If anything, I'm astounded by their talents and admire them greatly. I know what I'm capable of and it's good to get my batteries recharged by such sheer energy.

Yep -- you've been a great supporter of our comix since back in the day and I appreciate it, Lord Rex.

DRINKIN' BUDDIES meets A-OKAY COOL would be hilarious. I'll think on that. Good call.

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[info]lordrexfear
2005-05-02 04:06 pm UTC (link)
Okay I definitely need to stop hitting send before hitting spellcheck or reading my comments. Grammar issues, spelling typos, I end up looking like I barely speak English or something.

A battery recharge is a wonderful thing indeed, simetimes we need to see how great our fellow colleagues are to remind us what we should/could do ourselves with the right drive.

Also, I am never ever going to escape being called Lord Rex by some people, am I? Even someone like you who's known me since I was 16 years old, when I was just some weird alternative high school student named Reid. :)

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[info]man_size
2005-05-02 05:06 pm UTC (link)
LJ isn't for grammar. It's a cyber sketch diary. Don't worry yourself. Your ideas get across.

You're taking a guy who dubs himself "Man-Size" to task? Rock on with your bad Lord Rex Fear self!

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[info]trishalynn
2005-05-04 12:33 am UTC (link)
Sounds like a good and fun time was had by all. I was kicking a friend in the butt recently about his getting back into art and I realize now that I should have punted him in your direction. Maybe he could have gotten the day off to go see you, as he lives near there.

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